Interview: Angela Patton & Natalie Rae On 'Daughters'
In their feature filmmaking debut, two passionate women shine a light on Black girls and seek positive change in a system that punishes kids for things they can't control.
One of the most moving films of the year, Angela Patton and Natalie Rae’s Daughters centers around a father and daughter dance held at a Washington, D.C., jail. The event and the program behind it were started by Patton, who is the CEO of the organization Girls For A Change and founder of the Camp Diva Leadership Academy. However, it’s one of the rare times when a documentary that could be classified as a self-serving promotion is anything but. This was confirmed in my interview with Patton and Rae, conducted via Zoom in late August following its streaming debut on Netflix.
Now Daughters has been nominated for six Critics Choice Documentary Awards, including two categories recognizing the directorial achievement of Patton and Rae. This follows their two Sundance Film Festival awards for being an audience favorite at this year’s event. Daughters has continued to be one of the most talked about documentaries of the year since its Sundance debut because of its emotionally powerful subject matter, which is both character-focused and issue-driven. As I admitted to the filmmakers ahead of our conversation, it had me in tears throughout.
Here is that discussion, in full and edited only for clarity:
Nonfics: Did the project begin as a way of promoting the program?
Angela Patton: That was a motivator, but it was more the awareness and opportunity to shift people's minds around Black girls and how they claim agency. An opportunity for me to show how they are their best selves when they can affirm their own voices and they have free will and how wise they were because I've always had that experience. I had that experience because I grew up as a Black girl and I had many Black girl friends and cousins.
When I decided to do this program 20 years ago, I understood the roadblocks that Black girls kept facing. Most of it was the lack of their voices being heard, them not being seen. And these stereotypes about them. I said, well, I am in a position to change how people see them, and this would be the best way to do that, especially since Natalie understood that that was a priority for me. I can bring awareness to the organization and the great work that we do in Richmond, Virginia, where I'm born and raised, and people can see that girl-centered organizations overall need programming like this.
Nonfics: Angela, you had no directing experience before this. How was it decided that you two would be co-directors of this film?
Angela Patton: I haven't directed a film, but what I have directed was actually those skills that I was able to pull into a film. I directed fashion shows, events. I direct girls every day, from third grade to twelfth grade. I'm a director of an organization. I think a lot of times when we talk about transferable skills and for example, I'm not an artist, but guess what? You are a creator. So that means you are making art every day. So, because I'm able to pour those types of shifts in your mindset and not put things always in your head that cause you to block your own blesses, I had to have that same conversation with myself when Natalie asked me to try something new and have a new experience.
“This was my opportunity to try something new and do it differently instead of complaining about what I do not like.”
One of the things that I did know is that if I had an opportunity to spread the light and the joy and the brilliance of Black girls, who would be better to do that when I have been able to actually experience that for 20 years? And I have not actually enjoyed the way Black girls have been portrayed in stories. So this was my opportunity to try something new and do it differently instead of complaining about what I do not like. I just stepped into something that was challenging, but I'm also very coachable. So I always thank Natalie for asking me and also trusting my judgment too, being someone new, and understanding how I wanted the film to be portrayed.
Nonfics: Natalie, I'm curious how you came to be involved, and how you guys approached the collaboration in terms of who did what.
Natalie Rae: I came across Angela's TED talk about eight years ago and it was so powerful to me because it brought together a few really deep themes that I had been exploring in my work, and they were sort of all together in one project and it just rang all these bells in me. I reached out to Angela. And I never assumed I was going to be the best one to tell the story or I was going to come in and direct this movie for her. I just said, “Have you thought about that? Are you open to a collaboration?” I was very open to seeing where she wanted to lead it.
Ultimately, the story was very much inspired by her storytelling skills and me being so moved by the way she illustrated the wisdom of these girls and the importance of this father-daughter relationship. It felt very exciting to work with Angela and I just started to go out there and meet with her and we started building our relationship over the first few years. Interviewing some of the fathers who had been through the program and Sheriff Woody, who is incredible. He tells the story of receiving the letter and how much it moved him, and it was one of the most profound things he'd ever heard. He couldn't say no, in that moment of saying yes to the girls' request.
“We were really just committed to following the girls' lives and honoring their truth and allowing that to shape the film.”
I feel like our relationship to the film was quite organic because we were so motivated to make this and to share it with people but also that it would always come back to the eyes of the girls. I think this helps us take ourselves away. We're so devoted to this being a film from their words, from their experience, from their lives, that we also didn't really try to craft what's going to happen in the end of the film. What's the takeaway? What's going to happen after the dance? We were really just committed to following the girls' lives and honoring their truth and allowing that to shape the film. I think that's where it was a very healthy co-directing approach because if we ever saw something differently it was like, well, let's just go back and listen to what the girls have to say about this.
I have a background in documentary film and advertising and music videos and music and dance and could really feel and see the layers of the dance in a certain way. And Angela has got this amazing work with Girls For A Change, so I think that made it more rewarding for us to share ourselves and our worlds with each other and learn a lot and have 200-percent director. Which was fun over the years, as it's super hard to keep these projects going and funded and everything, so it's wonderful to have that kind of partner.
Nonfics: Angela, given that you came into this as the head of the organization behind the program — or despite it — were there any surprises with the way the documentary turned out?
Angela Patton: I would say the biggest surprise was how comfortable the girls were with sharing their truth. Although I'm used to that, but that's only because I run a program that provides a safe embrace space within the walls that girls become comfortable with. They build a relationship. They see images of themselves around the wall. People they see every day. That consistency is usually what's going to make the girl eventually open up. So when Natalie was able to bring in the cinematographer and all the crew and the girls just really truly fell right into everyone's arms, I realized this powerful tool of storytelling is allowing the girls to use it as therapeutic for them.
“The biggest surprise was how comfortable the girls were with sharing their truth.”
I could see healing happening. The first time they ever felt heard. The freedom of their voices. New people, new ears to really listen to them. And how quick they were comfortable with them was surprising. I don't usually have a camera in front of them because I want our sister circles, as we call them, to feel that they are confidential. So these girls were just ready to share with these new people. People who didn't look like them. And they had a lot to say and continue to ask for more. Then I would say, wow, this is very therapeutic and healing and helping the girls repair some brokenness. That was surprising but also really exciting to see that happen for them, and I saw that was a new way and new approach to how you can communicate and get the most out of young children.
Nonfics: What was the casting process like? Did you always want girls of different ages?
Angela Patton: We didn't do casting. My partnership with the Washington, D.C., jail was strictly just, can we make sure everyone has an opportunity to attend? What I also knew going in, although new to directing and new to this doc space, I understood the community space and can they actually stay the course. I knew people would transfer out, and some would probably not be interested, but let's make sure everyone has an opportunity because we really did not know, except that this was a powerful story to tell, which story would we tell.
As you can see, there are so many themes in it anyway. I knew that. I know it could be a story about Sheriff Woody. It could be a story about my dad shining shoes. It's so many stories. We decided that everyone would be able to participate. We were fortunate there. Natalie could speak more about the interviews and how families decided that they wanted to extend it. I would say it starts with the fathers because they first signed up to be in the program and then they extend this opportunity to their loved ones, which would include the mother, the caregiver, and the daughter or daughters.
“It starts with the fathers because they first signed up to be in the program.”
I'm proud that who stayed the course ended up becoming this beautiful coming-of-age story. But I always said we got really lucky there because it was a lot of bumps and then COVID and whether they would be able to stay with us. They were just as committed, in my opinion, to telling this story and bringing about awareness and being able to continue these relationships as we were.
Natalie Rae: We didn't go into it with the idea of through the ages or how many girls, but we knew that we wanted it to be a collection. It's “Daughters.” It's an experience, and everyone's going to have a very different relationship with their father, so meeting all the dads, it was so inspiring because it was like I was meeting all the daughters for the first time. They just brought them to life. And then I got to go meet the girls and was like that's the one with the missing front teeth, and it was beautiful to be this conduit and hear from each other and how close they were and everything.
Of course, a lot of the moms and daughters may have been less comfortable in the beginning. They were going to maybe be comfortable at the dance, and so it was around six that we first started working with and interviewing families on the mothers and daughters side. Then a couple of the dads did get transferred to other facilities before the dance, so then there were four at that time. And it was kind of amazing, we've got ages 5, 10, 11, 15, and as we got to know them, we also realized how different their relationships with their fathers were. Also, that part of this fatherhood wound and the cycle of their internal storm that we kind of talk about and bring out in the film is also in different areas of this cycle.
Then we thought, well, if all four of these families are willing to stay, then this would be a really strong group of girls. Then with some of the other families, they were also equally strong, and there are some families that are just shown visually. There are some that the chemistry is so strong that you see a lot of them at the dance or in certain parts. And there are a lot of fathers who speak in that circle. So, I would say trying to include as many stories as possible because they're all important and then these four girls felt like a really strong ensemble to move forward with.
Nonfics: Was it always a choice not to address why the fathers are in jail?
Angela Patton: Absolutely. We go back to, first, the name of the film, “Daughters.” And we also understand the root of why we even did the film: because of the girls in Richmond, Virginia, who actually had this unstoppable imagination to really think about what it's like when certain friends of theirs or themselves are not able to connect and bond and have similar experiences as a girl who goes to a father-daughter dance at a school, at their church, with their Girl Scout group. These girls simply did not care about what their fathers did. They wanted a moment to have a very simple dance with them, have a conversation, have the father pull out their chair, break bread with their fathers. That's all they wanted.
“It's not really what did they do, it's what are you going to do.”
If we had gotten deeper into why he was there, I believe the emotions of the crime, within 10 minutes and throughout the duration, would stop. Then the judgment of whether he deserves that would start to cloud the mind. The goal here was to allow the girls to lead us. What Natalie did very well was actively listening to them. This film was not for people to know why they were there. This film was created for us to see the power of girls, the power of force, the power of change. And also helping other people think about what is next. Because there is so much work to do when you watch that film. The well-being of children, the impact of the criminal justice system. The disruption of Black and Brown families. It's not really what did they do, it's what are you going to do. That was the purpose of me co-directing this film.
Natalie Rae: With Chad, just to add to that, the conversation never goes to let's talk about why you're here. It's we're meeting you as fathers. It was just never part of any of the conversations around the program from Angela, Chad, the girls, and if the children are innocent why are they facing punishments to their lives because of something their parents may or may not have done? It's just protecting their growth and their connection to love and a parent and growing up in the world.
Nonfics; Was there interest in this being a broader issue film about the costs to families of the incarcerated, or a message about the further detachment of the incarcerated from the outside world?
Natalie Rae: Definitely because I think that was something that, for me anyways, learning as I went along, the more families were talking about, oh, now we have to do these video visits. Well, the kids don't even want to do them because they have to go through security and it's this awful experience and they never want to go back and then we have to pay for the calls and then they're costing us a lot of money. These are pretty recent changes. It was before COVID but now with COVID, it's even harder for things to go back to having the glass rooms or visitation rooms and things in person. The film wanted to focus on those experiences the kids were having with trying to visit that were actually making the families feel more disconnected and more dehumanized with each other.
“It is a system that is corrupting these families, and it ultimately destroys our communities too.”
Angela Patton: I was really interested in, again, I go back to the girls quite often, and children, not only daughters but also sons, are usually the silent ones. We don't think about the impact that we're making on the children when these decisions on how to use the criminal justice system to really destroy families is what we see, but for those who are in these tech companies doing some of the prisons that get incentivized, it's all about dollars. We want to make sure we are bringing a spotlight to that because it's also how we vote, who we decide is going to be in office, who is running our jails and prisons who would make decisions like this that are extremely harmful. We understand that this mentally impacts these young children.
So, it was our responsibility not to hear this and not figure out a way to include what we hear the entire time. “I want to touch them.” “This is expensive.” “What would you want from this?” “I want a touch visit.” So we actually did our due diligence in making sure it was more than a dance that you saw at the end. It is a system that is corrupting these families, and it ultimately destroys our communities too. We all actually feel it at the end of the day. I think that's what Natalie and I were able to show in the film.
Nonfics: Angela, now that you have become a filmmaker, are you going to continue with it?
Angela Patton: Right now, I'm focused on the impact campaign because that takes me back to my work. But if I was to answer what's next for me, always being able to tell Black girls' stories and change mindsets and behaviors and stereotypes that have really affected their social and emotional well-being and how the world sees them is what my calling is, and if that means storytelling in many mediums, I believe so. I'm an author, a speaker, a filmmaker. I just believe whenever I have the attention of individuals who want to listen and figure out how they can join me in my movement to advance Black girls, absolutely.
Daughters is now streaming on Netflix.